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<head><meta charset="utf-8"><title>Meeting 2020-06-04 · wg-governance · Zulip Chat Archive</title></head>
<h2>Stream: <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/index.html">wg-governance</a></h2>
<h3>Topic: <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html">Meeting 2020-06-04</a></h3>

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<a name="199777535"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199777535" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> XAMPPRocky <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199777535">(Jun 04 2020 at 16:59)</a>:</h4>
<p>Hello everyone,</p>
<p>It's time for the bi-weekly <span class="user-group-mention" data-user-group-id="2317">@WG-governance</span> meeting! React/Reply with <span aria-label="wave" class="emoji emoji-1f44b" role="img" title="wave">:wave:</span> to indicate your attendance. Todays agenda can found in the <a href="https://hackmd.io/ATj1rZJaRimaIfIWfAOYfQ">hackmd</a>, I've also pasted it below for convienence.</p>
<h3>Followup From Last Meeting</h3>
<ul>
<li>Domain WG retrospective<br>
    - Received some feedback<br>
    - Need to change the <code>wg-leads</code> mailing list.</li>
</ul>
<h3>Proposed Topics</h3>
<ul>
<li>Continue fleshing out definition of WG</li>
<li>Discussion of visibility of resources </li>
<li>Effective discussion of contested RFCs</li>
</ul>



<a name="199777825"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199777825" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> XAMPPRocky <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199777825">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:01)</a>:</h4>
<p>I may have duck out at some point during the meeting for 10–15 minutes, if that happens I would love if someone could take the lead.</p>



<a name="199778072"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199778072" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199778072">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:03)</a>:</h4>
<p>Argh, I just realized I never posted my comment to those who had applied for domain WG</p>



<a name="199778075"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199778075" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199778075">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:03)</a>:</h4>
<p>I can do that</p>



<a name="199778252"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199778252" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199778252">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:04)</a>:</h4>
<p>Should we start with the Domain WG feedback I guess?</p>



<a name="199778257"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199778257" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> XAMPPRocky <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199778257">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:04)</a>:</h4>
<p>To start with our first topic on the Domain WG retrospective. Going through the feedback was less fruitful or at least there was nothing that particularly stood out to me, though it was still interesting. Did anyone else have a chance to read through them?</p>



<a name="199778267"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199778267" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199778267">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:04)</a>:</h4>
<p>(Looks like we're not a big group today)</p>



<a name="199778288"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199778288" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199778288">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:04)</a>:</h4>
<p>I'm skimming again</p>



<a name="199778347"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199778347" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199778347">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:05)</a>:</h4>
<p>one thing to note is that we got a mix of what I would call "true domain working groups" and other working groups (e.g., the compiler's MIR optimization WG)</p>



<a name="199778387"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199778387" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199778387">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:05)</a>:</h4>
<p>but I've come to believe the line is a bit less clear between the two anyhow</p>



<a name="199778398"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199778398" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> XAMPPRocky <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199778398">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:05)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think my main takeaway is that compiler working groups should not be on <code>wg-leads</code>, or at least there should be a separate mailing list for domain WGs.</p>



<a name="199778399"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199778399" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Nell Shamrell-Harrington <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199778399">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:05)</a>:</h4>
<p>Sorry, had to reboot, here now</p>



<a name="199778585"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199778585" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> BatmanAoD (Kyle Strand) <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199778585">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:07)</a>:</h4>
<p>Daniel Egger's response made me think "maybe this domain-group should actually be a project group".</p>



<a name="199778615"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199778615" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199778615">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:07)</a>:</h4>
<p>which .. embedded?</p>



<a name="199778639"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199778639" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> BatmanAoD (Kyle Strand) <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199778639">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:07)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think so...he mentions embedded</p>



<a name="199778691"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199778691" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> BatmanAoD (Kyle Strand) <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199778691">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:08)</a>:</h4>
<p>The "tighter integration w/ the Rust core &amp; lang teams" comment makes me think "hm, a liaison would fulfill this need"</p>



<a name="199778726"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199778726" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199778726">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:08)</a>:</h4>
<p>It feels like the 'canonical example' of a successful group that is <em>not</em> oriented around a clear set of projects (or at least they've been doing a good job of creating new projects)</p>



<a name="199778738"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199778738" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199778738">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:08)</a>:</h4>
<p>However,</p>



<a name="199778770"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199778770" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199778770">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:08)</a>:</h4>
<p>I do feel that it would've been better to have "representatives" from lang etc, at least <em>in theory</em></p>



<a name="199778797"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199778797" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199778797">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:08)</a>:</h4>
<p>but I guess it also depends on the role</p>



<a name="199778825"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199778825" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199778825">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:08)</a>:</h4>
<p>I guess I think we've not had a super lot of intercommunication</p>



<a name="199778839"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199778839" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199778839">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:09)</a>:</h4>
<p>to the extend that embedded is focused on creating libraries and things to support embedded targets, such communication isn't needed --</p>



<a name="199778881"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199778881" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> XAMPPRocky <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199778881">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:09)</a>:</h4>
<p>I would agree with that would also reflect what <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="228912">@James Munns</span> said there feedback about it being nicer if it felt more integrated.</p>



<a name="199778882"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199778882" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199778882">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:09)</a>:</h4>
<p>but there are definitely cases where it makes sense, and I guess we've kind of handled them by cc'ing the right people</p>



<a name="199778936"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199778936" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199778936">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:10)</a>:</h4>
<p>I'm trying to remember where we left it, I feel like we kind of retreat some of the same ground each time we talk about this</p>



<a name="199778999"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199778999" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199778999">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:10)</a>:</h4>
<p>I am trying to think how to "structure" to make clearer progress =)</p>



<a name="199779026"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199779026" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199779026">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:10)</a>:</h4>
<p>otoh it does seem lke we've kind of come to some conclusions, e.g., we don't think the "application process" was a big success</p>



<a name="199779079"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199779079" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199779079">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:11)</a>:</h4>
<p>though I was thinking about the overlap between that and the process i'm proposing for lang-team RFCs</p>



<a name="199779080"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199779080" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> BatmanAoD (Kyle Strand) <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199779080">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:11)</a>:</h4>
<p>Hm. Actually, I think I was looking at Oli's groups when I thought that they should be project groups. They sound pretty project-like: mir-opt, const-eval, diagnostic</p>



<a name="199779096"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199779096" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199779096">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:11)</a>:</h4>
<p>yeah so those are all compiler working groups</p>



<a name="199779110"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199779110" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199779110">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:11)</a>:</h4>
<p>they are actually a distinct category in some sense, which is what <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="219696">@XAMPPRocky</span> was saying</p>



<a name="199779122"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199779122" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199779122">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:11)</a>:</h4>
<p>though we conflate them into one mailing list</p>



<a name="199779129"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199779129" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> BatmanAoD (Kyle Strand) <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199779129">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:11)</a>:</h4>
<p>ah</p>



<a name="199779154"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199779154" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199779154">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:11)</a>:</h4>
<p>though there is <em>some</em> overlap in my view</p>



<a name="199779163"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199779163" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199779163">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:11)</a>:</h4>
<p>it's hard to categorize things :)</p>



<a name="199779231"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199779231" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199779231">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:12)</a>:</h4>
<p>basically there's often overlap betwen "pure compiler" efforts and "the lang team", I guess</p>



<a name="199779333"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199779333" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> XAMPPRocky <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199779333">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:13)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116009">@nikomatsakis</span> How do they overlap with domain WGs?</p>



<a name="199779359"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199779359" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> BatmanAoD (Kyle Strand) <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199779359">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:13)</a>:</h4>
<p>The structure we've discussed for project groups still makes sense to me for those projects: charter, liaison, &amp; discussion w/ all relevant teams</p>



<a name="199779386"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199779386" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199779386">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:13)</a>:</h4>
<p>I'm thinking more of things like "error handling" or "async I/O"</p>



<a name="199779405"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199779405" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199779405">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:13)</a>:</h4>
<p>than things like "compiler diagnostics"</p>



<a name="199779424"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199779424" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199779424">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:13)</a>:</h4>
<p>and I think the major thing I see is that they're kind of "cross-cutting"</p>



<a name="199779534"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199779534" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199779534">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:14)</a>:</h4>
<p>I have a question, do we have .. like a paper doc or hackmd that we're using to try and "document the scope" of this conversation? I think probably not?</p>



<a name="199779543"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199779543" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199779543">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:14)</a>:</h4>
<p>maybe we can turn a bit meta</p>



<a name="199779550"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199779550" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> XAMPPRocky <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199779550">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:14)</a>:</h4>
<p>Ah I see what you mean now.</p>



<a name="199779618"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199779618" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Nell Shamrell-Harrington <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199779618">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:15)</a>:</h4>
<p>I don't think we have a paper doc or hackmd that we're using to try and document the scope</p>



<a name="199779623"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199779623" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Nell Shamrell-Harrington <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199779623">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:15)</a>:</h4>
<p>Happy to start one</p>



<a name="199779628"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199779628" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> XAMPPRocky <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199779628">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:15)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116009">@nikomatsakis</span> I assume you mean an overrarching document on domain WGs? I don't believe so but we should  start one.</p>



<a name="199779638"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199779638" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Nell Shamrell-Harrington <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199779638">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:15)</a>:</h4>
<p>on it</p>



<a name="199779659"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199779659" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199779659">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:15)</a>:</h4>
<p>like I think what would be helpful is if we were able to kind of map out:</p>
<ul>
<li>what is our goal</li>
<li>what are some of the questions we've settled</li>
<li>what are some of the things we're still discussing and what are the current thoughts about them</li>
</ul>



<a name="199779686"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199779686" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199779686">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:15)</a>:</h4>
<p>a paper or hackmd is often a good way to get started on that...</p>



<a name="199779817"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199779817" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Nell Shamrell-Harrington <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199779817">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:16)</a>:</h4>
<p><a href="https://paper.dropbox.com/doc/Domain-Working-Group-Scoping--A1SjWOx8Y_ego4~clsn2MBDaAg-LHeTtnyfLesp1lLbv4jUY">https://paper.dropbox.com/doc/Domain-Working-Group-Scoping--A1SjWOx8Y_ego4~clsn2MBDaAg-LHeTtnyfLesp1lLbv4jUY</a></p>



<a name="199779871"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199779871" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> XAMPPRocky <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199779871">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:17)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="120076">BatmanAoD (Kyle Strand)</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04/near/199779359">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>The structure we've discussed for project groups still makes sense to me for those projects: charter, liaison, &amp; discussion w/ all relevant teams</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Relatedly something I think that would be worth discussing is how to provide some kind of transition for older groups.</p>



<a name="199780036"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199780036" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199780036">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:18)</a>:</h4>
<p>heh I'm having a bit of trouble figuring out to even phrase the goal :)</p>



<a name="199780049"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199780049" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199780049">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:18)</a>:</h4>
<p>I guess one of them would be like "what to do with domain wgs" but I think that's kind of narrow</p>



<a name="199780057"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199780057" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199780057">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:18)</a>:</h4>
<p>I feel like it's something like:</p>



<a name="199780098"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199780098" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199780098">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:18)</a>:</h4>
<ul>
<li>to propose how Rust governance model should include focused/cross-cutting groups</li>
</ul>



<a name="199780163"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199780163" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199780163">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:19)</a>:</h4>
<p>or maybe that already tells something</p>



<a name="199780211"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199780211" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199780211">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:19)</a>:</h4>
<p>like, it's maybe useful for us to go over what goals we are trying to achieve w/ domain WGs (and other Gs) in the first place, right?</p>



<a name="199780785"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199780785" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Manish Goregaokar <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199780785">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:23)</a>:</h4>
<p>FWIW i don't think i got access to the domain WG responses?</p>



<a name="199780829"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199780829" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Nell Shamrell-Harrington <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199780829">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:23)</a>:</h4>
<p>I'll add you, <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="132040">@Manish Goregaokar</span></p>



<a name="199780845"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199780845" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199780845">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:23)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="249394">@Val Grimm</span> was adding perms one by one, I'll add ya-- ok, Nell will :)</p>



<a name="199780928"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199780928" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Val Grimm <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199780928">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:24)</a>:</h4>
<p>I can add Manish</p>



<a name="199780938"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199780938" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Val Grimm <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199780938">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:24)</a>:</h4>
<p>Also there was a new one today</p>



<a name="199780951"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199780951" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Val Grimm <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199780951">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:24)</a>:</h4>
<p>sorry for the delay, there was an issue</p>



<a name="199780971"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199780971" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199780971">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:24)</a>:</h4>
<p>OK, I wrote my take on the Domain WG application process in <a href="https://paper.dropbox.com/doc/Domain-Working-Group-Scope--A1QeqLbT4gX_0E0gkyrB_5rUAg-LHeTtnyfLesp1lLbv4jUY">the paper doc</a></p>



<a name="199780974"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199780974" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Nell Shamrell-Harrington <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199780974">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:24)</a>:</h4>
<p>Already added - sent to your gmail, <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="132040">@Manish Goregaokar</span></p>



<a name="199780991"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199780991" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199780991">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:24)</a>:</h4>
<p>curious if others agree with that or have things to add</p>



<a name="199781021"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199781021" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Nell Shamrell-Harrington <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199781021">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:25)</a>:</h4>
<p>oh....looks like what I did was ask <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="249394">@Val Grimm</span> to add Manish to the doc</p>



<a name="199781053"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199781053" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Nell Shamrell-Harrington <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199781053">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:25)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think only <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="249394">@Val Grimm</span> has permissions to add people</p>



<a name="199781079"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199781079" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Val Grimm <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199781079">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:25)</a>:</h4>
<p>I can fix that, but for now I added Manish</p>



<a name="199781102"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199781102" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Val Grimm <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199781102">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:25)</a>:</h4>
<p>I'll read back over this, I have to deal with a thing first</p>



<a name="199781116"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199781116" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> XAMPPRocky <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199781116">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:25)</a>:</h4>
<p>Well my first thought is around project groups (of course). Projects groups are a way of building groups around cross-cutting concerns between the teams, or for a team to split up responsibilities around its projects or a particular concept.</p>



<a name="199781122"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199781122" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Val Grimm <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199781122">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:26)</a>:</h4>
<p>(Also at some point need to know what to respond to folks, as I waited to hear what was said here)</p>



<a name="199781193"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199781193" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> XAMPPRocky <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199781193">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:26)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116009">@nikomatsakis</span> I think that last paragraph hits the nail on the head.</p>



<a name="199781283"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199781283" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199781283">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:26)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think there's another side too, that's similar to the last point</p>



<a name="199781330"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199781330" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199781330">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:27)</a>:</h4>
<p>which is that -- well, it ties into the question of "what are we hoping to achieve with groups", but I suspect part of the answer will be</p>



<a name="199781366"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199781366" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199781366">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:27)</a>:</h4>
<p>help steer the teams to better support domains, achieve goals, etc</p>



<a name="199781399"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199781399" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199781399">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:27)</a>:</h4>
<p>and that implies some "tighter connections" to teams maybe, as we've been talking about,</p>



<a name="199781439"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199781439" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199781439">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:27)</a>:</h4>
<p>which again suggests that, well, we can't focus on everything, that's no focus at all</p>



<a name="199781459"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199781459" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199781459">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:27)</a>:</h4>
<p>I guess it's sort of the same point :)</p>



<a name="199781575"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199781575" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Manish Goregaokar <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199781575">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:28)</a>:</h4>
<p>It seems like half these email responses are talking about non-domain WGs?</p>



<a name="199781622"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199781622" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199781622">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:29)</a>:</h4>
<p>that's because the wg-leads mailing list</p>



<a name="199781647"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199781647" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> XAMPPRocky <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199781647">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:29)</a>:</h4>
<p>I would also add to better distribute a given team's work load and to make an individuals responsibilities more transparent.</p>



<a name="199781651"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199781651" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199781651">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:29)</a>:</h4>
<p>includes too many folks :)</p>



<a name="199781658"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199781658" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199781658">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:29)</a>:</h4>
<p>(see above)</p>



<a name="199781681"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199781681" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199781681">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:29)</a>:</h4>
<p>or at least domain working groups are not a concept in the team repo</p>



<a name="199781715"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199781715" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199781715">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:29)</a>:</h4>
<p>ok so maybe we can turn to the "reasons for groups" a bit...</p>



<a name="199781901"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199781901" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Nell Shamrell-Harrington <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199781901">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:30)</a>:</h4>
<p>brb</p>



<a name="199782058"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199782058" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199782058">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:31)</a>:</h4>
<p>I want to add something else</p>



<a name="199782067"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199782067" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199782067">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:31)</a>:</h4>
<p>I'm curious if others agree ;)</p>



<a name="199782089"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199782089" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199782089">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:31)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think that part of the purpose of a domain WG like embedded probalby <em>is</em> to develop projects --</p>



<a name="199782102"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199782102" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199782102">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:31)</a>:</h4>
<p>especially to fill missing gaps in tooling or ecosystem</p>



<a name="199782119"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199782119" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199782119">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:31)</a>:</h4>
<p>but perhaps also to help bridge differences where needed</p>



<a name="199782178"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199782178" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199782178">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:32)</a>:</h4>
<p>this has been something that's tricky to approach, but it seems obvious it's sometimes needed, and I think we should admit that</p>



<a name="199782272"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199782272" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Manish Goregaokar <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199782272">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:32)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116009">@nikomatsakis</span> yes</p>



<a name="199782273"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199782273" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> XAMPPRocky <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199782273">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:32)</a>:</h4>
<p>Yeah I would definitely agree with that, even if not intentional I think some of the biggest impacts Working Groups have had is the developer tools they built for their domain.</p>



<a name="199782280"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199782280" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> BatmanAoD (Kyle Strand) <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199782280">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:32)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think I said something along the lines of "the purpose of domain groups should be to spawn project groups" a few weeks ago</p>



<a name="199782333"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199782333" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Manish Goregaokar <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199782333">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:33)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116009">@nikomatsakis</span> this is how CLI and embedded have both operated; as a focal point for missing projects</p>



<a name="199782360"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199782360" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Manish Goregaokar <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199782360">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:33)</a>:</h4>
<p>that has worked well</p>



<a name="199782369"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199782369" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199782369">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:33)</a>:</h4>
<p>it seems to me that a <em>project group</em> is really a subunit of other things and is a distinct concept, in that it is pursuing a specific idea</p>



<a name="199782396"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199782396" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Manish Goregaokar <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199782396">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:33)</a>:</h4>
<p>it's unclear how _official_ that needs to be for cases where it is not a team priority</p>



<a name="199782407"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199782407" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199782407">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:33)</a>:</h4>
<p>yes I mean I think it's a good example of why</p>



<a name="199782442"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199782442" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199782442">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:34)</a>:</h4>
<p>we don't want to be doing this lightly</p>



<a name="199782460"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199782460" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199782460">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:34)</a>:</h4>
<p>because that's not always an easy thing to do</p>



<a name="199782461"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199782461" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Manish Goregaokar <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199782461">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:34)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116009">@nikomatsakis</span> this was always my impression, what we used to call subteam WG is very different from the domain WGs</p>



<a name="199782464"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199782464" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Nell Shamrell-Harrington <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199782464">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:34)</a>:</h4>
<p>back!</p>



<a name="199782493"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199782493" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199782493">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:34)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="132040">@Manish Goregaokar</span> so I said <em>project group</em> for a reason</p>



<a name="199782524"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199782524" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Manish Goregaokar <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199782524">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:34)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116009">@nikomatsakis</span> yep! "what we used to call subteam wg"</p>



<a name="199782555"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199782555" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Manish Goregaokar <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199782555">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:34)</a>:</h4>
<p>those are basically all PGs in my understanding of things</p>



<a name="199782565"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199782565" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Manish Goregaokar <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199782565">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:34)</a>:</h4>
<p>even if we don't call them that yet</p>



<a name="199782592"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199782592" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Manish Goregaokar <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199782592">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:35)</a>:</h4>
<p>either PGs or just subteams without a leader</p>



<a name="199782605"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199782605" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199782605">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:35)</a>:</h4>
<p>I was raising up "error handling" and "async I/O" as examples of things that feel a bit different</p>



<a name="199782617"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199782617" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199782617">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:35)</a>:</h4>
<p>that could be more like a CLI/embedded domain</p>



<a name="199782715"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199782715" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Manish Goregaokar <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199782715">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:36)</a>:</h4>
<p>yeah</p>



<a name="199782730"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199782730" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199782730">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:36)</a>:</h4>
<p>that said, within the compiler team, we're also talking about trying to create groups focused on areas of the compiler (e.g., MIR optimizations), which are a bit different in that they're not <em>project-focused</em>, they're more something that gives rise to projects, but "subteams" might even be a reasonable term, idk, we can leave them out for now probably :)</p>



<a name="199782823"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199782823" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199782823">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:37)</a>:</h4>
<p>I wonder if a role of domain WGs is also to give people a place to talk?</p>



<a name="199782866"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199782866" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199782866">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:37)</a>:</h4>
<p>(like, idk, maybe having a CLI WG is a good way for the author of clap + some other argument parsing tool to talk and figure out a common interface?)</p>



<a name="199783079"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199783079" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Manish Goregaokar <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199783079">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:39)</a>:</h4>
<p>yeah. and/or an incubation ground for a new project</p>



<a name="199783081"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199783081" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Nell Shamrell-Harrington <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199783081">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:39)</a>:</h4>
<p>they are good ways to find smaller groups of people with domain context/knowledge</p>



<a name="199783110"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199783110" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199783110">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:39)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think that last point of "give people a place to talk"</p>



<a name="199783133"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199783133" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199783133">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:39)</a>:</h4>
<p>is perhaps <em>often</em> (but not always?) what some of the "applications" we saw were looking for?</p>



<a name="199783165"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199783165" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Manish Goregaokar <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199783165">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:39)</a>:</h4>
<p>strawman proposal riffing off of niko's framing: these are community groups, and all they are is a mailing list, not a part of the team structure</p>



<a name="199783171"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199783171" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> BatmanAoD (Kyle Strand) <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199783171">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:39)</a>:</h4>
<p>Hm, probably? Probably.</p>



<a name="199783235"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199783235" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> XAMPPRocky <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199783235">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:40)</a>:</h4>
<p>Maybe the problem is that the messaging around working groups is that it feels like "The Rust project is now the de facto error handling group", when really I think what we'd like to be just to be more involved and promote discussions.</p>



<a name="199783240"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199783240" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Manish Goregaokar <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199783240">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:40)</a>:</h4>
<p>mentioned on the website as a "wanna get involved in the CLI ecosystem? check out this repo"</p>



<a name="199783243"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199783243" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> BatmanAoD (Kyle Strand) <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199783243">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:40)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="132040">@Manish Goregaokar</span> Even that strawman form doesn't seem unreasonable to me</p>



<a name="199783249"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199783249" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> BatmanAoD (Kyle Strand) <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199783249">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:40)</a>:</h4>
<p>Yeah</p>



<a name="199783257"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199783257" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> BatmanAoD (Kyle Strand) <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199783257">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:40)</a>:</h4>
<p>repo and/or chat group</p>



<a name="199783304"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199783304" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199783304">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:40)</a>:</h4>
<p>so it seems like this is kind of <em>effectively</em> what the groups are <em>now</em>, except that we do have e.g. Zulip streams for those who want it</p>



<a name="199783316"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199783316" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Manish Goregaokar <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199783316">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:41)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="219696">@XAMPPRocky</span> yes. if you notice the CLI wg, it never really did "de facto crates", it just improved the existing ecosystem. embedding did similar stuff and it also spent time poking the lang team</p>



<a name="199783367"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199783367" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199783367">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:41)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="219696">XAMPPRocky</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04/near/199783235">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>Maybe the problem is that the messaging around working groups is that it feels like "The Rust project is now the de facto error handling group", when really I think what we'd like to be just to be more involved and promote discussions.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>I don't quite understand this</p>



<a name="199783427"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199783427" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199783427">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:41)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="132040">@Manish Goregaokar</span> I'm going to sketch out the "Community group" idea at the bottom of doc</p>



<a name="199783436"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199783436" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199783436">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:42)</a>:</h4>
<p>it's definitely an idea that's come up before</p>



<a name="199783676"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199783676" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199783676">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:44)</a>:</h4>
<p>I guess I would maybe go even more minimal and say</p>



<a name="199783723"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199783723" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Manish Goregaokar <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199783723">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:44)</a>:</h4>
<p>i ALSO like the idea of making these be sponsored by existing teams, and to do that you need a liason from the team whose responsibility it is to keep the parent team updated on an infrequent basis and also ensure the group follows the coc</p>



<a name="199783725"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199783725" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> XAMPPRocky <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199783725">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:44)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116009">@nikomatsakis</span> Maybe I should phrase it better. In the past when these working groups were announced, the community sentiment I noticed around those announcements was the those groups were the "be all and end all" for that domain.</p>



<a name="199783760"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199783760" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199783760">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:44)</a>:</h4>
<p>a community group could <em>just</em> be a listing of folks who ask to be included, people can easily enough make their own Zulip instance, github org, etc</p>



<a name="199783790"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199783790" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Manish Goregaokar <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199783790">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:44)</a>:</h4>
<p>^ i agree. we had a lot of this for async. less so for cli because the cli ecosystem _existed_, but was involved in the group and was happy for the help</p>



<a name="199783802"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199783802" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Manish Goregaokar <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199783802">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:44)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116009">@nikomatsakis</span> yeah this is better imo</p>



<a name="199783805"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199783805" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199783805">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:44)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="132040">@Manish Goregaokar</span> I'm thinking more in this direction, I think. That is, rather than "scale back" what a domain WG means, scale it <strong>up</strong> just a bit</p>



<a name="199783820"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199783820" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Manish Goregaokar <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199783820">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:45)</a>:</h4>
<p>yep'</p>



<a name="199783821"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199783821" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199783821">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:45)</a>:</h4>
<p>or possibly do a bit of both :)</p>



<a name="199783843"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199783843" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199783843">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:45)</a>:</h4>
<p>that is, we can list out community groups in the very minimal form to help folks self-organize</p>



<a name="199783861"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199783861" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199783861">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:45)</a>:</h4>
<p>but if we're going to have it be part of rust org, let's make it more meaningful</p>



<a name="199783862"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199783862" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Manish Goregaokar <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199783862">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:45)</a>:</h4>
<p>exactly</p>



<a name="199783885"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199783885" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> BatmanAoD (Kyle Strand) <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199783885">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:45)</a>:</h4>
<p>Scale back official-Rust-project-involvement so that the groups themselves can scale up</p>



<a name="199783923"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199783923" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Manish Goregaokar <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199783923">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:45)</a>:</h4>
<p>yes</p>



<a name="199783999"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199783999" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Manish Goregaokar <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199783999">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:46)</a>:</h4>
<p>i think the liason concept is a good way to ensure we don't end up supporting groups that are operating in a negative way</p>



<a name="199784010"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199784010" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Manish Goregaokar <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199784010">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:46)</a>:</h4>
<p>but it's not necessary</p>



<a name="199784012"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199784012" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> XAMPPRocky <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199784012">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:46)</a>:</h4>
<p>Okay, quick time check we're at less than 15 minutes. Where do we want to go from here?</p>



<a name="199784028"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199784028" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199784028">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:46)</a>:</h4>
<ul>
<li>Allow folks to register “community groups”<br>
    - These are not “official” parts of Rust, this is just a directory to help people self-organize<br>
    - The group provides its own chat platform, github org, discourse instance, whatever<br>
        - these are readily available and free<br>
    - They must meet some minimal criteria (CoC) and if there are complaints (e.g., poor moderation) we’ll remove them</li>
</ul>



<a name="199784054"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199784054" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199784054">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:46)</a>:</h4>
<p>(that's my "proposal" for the "bare minimum", if we want it)</p>



<a name="199784088"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199784088" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Nell Shamrell-Harrington <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199784088">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:46)</a>:</h4>
<p>github org or github repo?</p>



<a name="199784094"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199784094" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199784094">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:46)</a>:</h4>
<p>I amended it</p>



<a name="199784104"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199784104" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199784104">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:47)</a>:</h4>
<p>to github org/repo (but not in rust-lang)</p>



<a name="199784160"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199784160" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199784160">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:47)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="219696">XAMPPRocky</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04/near/199784012">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>Okay, quick time check we're at less than 15 minutes. Where do we want to go from here?</p>
</blockquote>
<p>so this felt pretty productive</p>



<a name="199784288"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199784288" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Nell Shamrell-Harrington <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199784288">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:48)</a>:</h4>
<p>totes!</p>



<a name="199784326"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199784326" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199784326">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:48)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think it's probably worth talking a bit more about  what a more "integrated" domain WG looks like</p>



<a name="199784333"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199784333" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> BatmanAoD (Kyle Strand) <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199784333">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:48)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think "fleshing out definition of wg" and "discussion of visibility of resources" feel like they fall under the umbrella of everything we just discussed, even if we didn't  get to those points specifically</p>



<a name="199784335"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199784335" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199784335">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:48)</a>:</h4>
<p>I do think the domain WG could function as an "community group"</p>



<a name="199784342"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199784342" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199784342">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:48)</a>:</h4>
<p>but it feels like a bit of a lost opportuinity -- <em>maybe</em></p>



<a name="199784352"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199784352" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199784352">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:48)</a>:</h4>
<p>but maybe not, I don't know, I mean maybe the idea is</p>



<a name="199784360"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199784360" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199784360">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:49)</a>:</h4>
<p>when embedded has a good idea that needs Rust suppor</p>



<a name="199784373"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199784373" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199784373">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:49)</a>:</h4>
<p>they make a proposal for a project group</p>



<a name="199784419"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199784419" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199784419">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:49)</a>:</h4>
<p>but I guess stuff like error handling / async-IO also remains to be discussed mildly -- but those could <em>probalby</em> be framed as project groups</p>



<a name="199784432"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199784432" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199784432">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:49)</a>:</h4>
<p>i.e., they have at least <em>somewhat</em> clear goals and an "end point"</p>



<a name="199784455"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199784455" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199784455">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:49)</a>:</h4>
<p>(async I/O maybe a bit less so)</p>



<a name="199784460"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199784460" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> BatmanAoD (Kyle Strand) <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199784460">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:50)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="116009">nikomatsakis</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04/near/199784342">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>but it feels like a bit of a lost opportuinity -- <em>maybe</em></p>
</blockquote>
<p>I'm not sure what you mean about a lost opportunity, but if we transformed all domain wgs into community groups, and some groups felt that they had been "downgraded", they could come to us with a proposal of what relationship w/ the Rust project they'd prefer?</p>



<a name="199784527"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199784527" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199784527">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:50)</a>:</h4>
<p>well what I meant by lost opportunity is</p>



<a name="199784561"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199784561" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199784561">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:50)</a>:</h4>
<p>maybe we would e.g. benefit from engaging embedded more</p>



<a name="199784571"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199784571" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199784571">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:50)</a>:</h4>
<p>personally I think we could just make embedded WG a rust team</p>



<a name="199784601"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199784601" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199784601">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:50)</a>:</h4>
<p>that's another viable option :)</p>



<a name="199784617"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199784617" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199784617">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:51)</a>:</h4>
<p>I guess the question though is:</p>



<a name="199784655"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199784655" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199784655">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:51)</a>:</h4>
<p>if say project decides "we should push on GUI this year", how do we <em>do</em> that?</p>



<a name="199784665"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199784665" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199784665">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:51)</a>:</h4>
<p>I guess at this point it's not 2015 anymore, there are extant groups to engage with</p>



<a name="199784676"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199784676" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199784676">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:51)</a>:</h4>
<p>so maybe the answer is that we find the most prominent community group and work with them</p>



<a name="199784683"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199784683" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199784683">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:51)</a>:</h4>
<p>I do foresee (d'oh) competing community group(s)</p>



<a name="199784688"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199784688" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199784688">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:51)</a>:</h4>
<p>being a fun little outcome here :P</p>



<a name="199784694"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199784694" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199784694">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:51)</a>:</h4>
<p>but I guess not our problem</p>



<a name="199784816"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199784816" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> BatmanAoD (Kyle Strand) <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199784816">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:52)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="116009">nikomatsakis</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04/near/199784655">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>if say project decides "we should push on GUI this year", how do we <em>do</em> that?</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Simple (simplistic?) answer: prioritize liaison time for GUI project-groups</p>



<a name="199784867"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199784867" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> BatmanAoD (Kyle Strand) <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199784867">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:53)</a>:</h4>
<p>(If I sound like someone with a hammer looking for a nail, it's because your "liaisons naturally limit how many active projects we have" concept is... really, really good)</p>



<a name="199784868"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199784868" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199784868">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:53)</a>:</h4>
<p>yeah I mean I guess I think the answer probably is</p>



<a name="199784896"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199784896" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199784896">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:53)</a>:</h4>
<p>that the only way that the "Rust org" makes this happens is that we let it be known that people should come to us with ideas</p>



<a name="199784919"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199784919" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199784919">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:53)</a>:</h4>
<p>i.e., for GUI, if you're finding that you need some borrow check extension to express a pattern..</p>



<a name="199784988"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199784988" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199784988">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:54)</a>:</h4>
<p>...but I guess the more interesting thing might be something like "adopting bits of standing GUI stuff into stdlib"</p>



<a name="199785001"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199785001" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199785001">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:54)</a>:</h4>
<p>similar to things like <code>Stream</code> in async I/O</p>



<a name="199785114"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199785114" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> XAMPPRocky <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199785114">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:55)</a>:</h4>
<p>Well I feel we shouldn't be solely reactive, we might want to start some kind of developer outreach in order to get feedback more proactively, especially from companies who won't post their complaints on the forums.</p>



<a name="199785134"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199785134" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199785134">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:55)</a>:</h4>
<p>( I have to admit though I kind of like the "Community Groups" and "Project Groups" duality )</p>



<a name="199785231"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199785231" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199785231">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:56)</a>:</h4>
<p>I guess I do think we need a name for things like .. "working groups", standing groups with a purpose</p>



<a name="199785239"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199785239" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199785239">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:56)</a>:</h4>
<p>but maybe the answer is "subteams"</p>



<a name="199785281"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199785281" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199785281">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:56)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="219696">@XAMPPRocky</span> that kind of outreach could well take place in the context of a project group, I guess</p>



<a name="199785295"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199785295" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> XAMPPRocky <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199785295">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:56)</a>:</h4>
<p>okay we have less than 5 minutes. Are there action items that people should take away from this meeting?</p>



<a name="199785323"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199785323" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199785323">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:57)</a>:</h4>
<p>I'll try to summarize this rambly bit at the end</p>



<a name="199785324"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199785324" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199785324">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:57)</a>:</h4>
<p>:)</p>



<a name="199785332"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199785332" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199785332">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:57)</a>:</h4>
<p>into the paper doc</p>



<a name="199785346"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199785346" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199785346">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:57)</a>:</h4>
<p>but maybe the question is what to talk about next week?</p>



<a name="199785365"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199785365" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199785365">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:57)</a>:</h4>
<p>(more on domain WGs? something else?)</p>



<a name="199785385"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199785385" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> XAMPPRocky <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199785385">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:57)</a>:</h4>
<ul>
<li>Discussion of visibility of resources </li>
<li>Effective discussion of contested RFCs</li>
</ul>



<a name="199785457"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199785457" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> XAMPPRocky <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199785457">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:58)</a>:</h4>
<p>Those are two other topics we didn't get to.</p>



<a name="199785504"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199785504" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> XAMPPRocky <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199785504">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:58)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think it would be good to keep going on domain wgs though.</p>



<a name="199785526"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199785526" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199785526">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:58)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think so too</p>



<a name="199785659"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199785659" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> XAMPPRocky <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199785659">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:59)</a>:</h4>
<p>Okay well unless anyone has anything else to say, that concludes our bi-weekly meeting. Thank you everyone for coming and stay safe! <span aria-label="slight smile" class="emoji emoji-1f642" role="img" title="slight smile">:slight_smile:</span></p>



<a name="199785671"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199785671" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> BatmanAoD (Kyle Strand) <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199785671">(Jun 04 2020 at 17:59)</a>:</h4>
<p>Suggestion: I think it's somewhat of a governance responsibility to clarify when the core team can make unilateral decisions, especially w/ respect to responsibilities usually handled by other groups.</p>



<a name="199785787"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199785787" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> BatmanAoD (Kyle Strand) <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199785787">(Jun 04 2020 at 18:00)</a>:</h4>
<p>I don't know if having an official "policy" about that would be beneficial, but maybe we should at least discuss it a little.</p>



<a name="199785871"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199785871" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199785871">(Jun 04 2020 at 18:00)</a>:</h4>
<p>Maybe spin out into a topic to discuss a bit async? I'm curious if you have some specific thoughts or examples :)</p>



<a name="199785874"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199785874" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> BatmanAoD (Kyle Strand) <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199785874">(Jun 04 2020 at 18:00)</a>:</h4>
<p>I am thinking specifically of the core team's replacement release-blog-post this week. Though in that case perhaps "unilateral" is not quite the right term, since there was a bit of discussion in the release team channel.</p>



<a name="199785904"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199785904" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199785904">(Jun 04 2020 at 18:01)</a>:</h4>
<p>Ah, OK.</p>



<a name="199785972"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199785972" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199785972">(Jun 04 2020 at 18:01)</a>:</h4>
<p>(My view on that particular topic is that the blog is ultimately managed by the core team, <a href="https://forge.rust-lang.org/core/blogs.html#writing-for-the-main-rust-blog">as noted here</a>.)</p>



<a name="199785978"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199785978" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> BatmanAoD (Kyle Strand) <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199785978">(Jun 04 2020 at 18:01)</a>:</h4>
<p>But it also came up a loooooong time ago in a completely different context, so... I guess I will find that discussion and link to it in a new topic</p>



<a name="199786186"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting%202020-06-04/near/199786186" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> XAMPPRocky <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/223182-wg-governance/topic/Meeting.202020-06-04.html#199786186">(Jun 04 2020 at 18:03)</a>:</h4>
<p>I'd also definitely like to the discuss the "core team" in relation to the project in general at some point. I don't really have any finished thoughts though.</p>



<hr><p>Last updated: Aug 07 2021 at 22:04 UTC</p>
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